🎙️ The Knowledge Project: How To Build A Cult with Lulu Cheng Meservey

🎙️ The Knowledge Project: How To Build A Cult with Lulu Cheng Meservey

PODCAST INFORMATION

The Knowledge Project with Shane Parrish
How To Build A Cult | Lulu Cheng Meservey
Host: Shane Parrish
Guest: Lulu Cheng Meservey (creator of Rostra, former CCO and EVP of corporate affairs at Activision Blizzard, former VP of comms at Substack)
Episode Duration: Approximately 1 hour and 48 minutes

🎧 Listen here.

HOOK

In a world drowning in AI-generated content and noise, the ability to capture attention and build trust has become the ultimate superpower for anyone looking to make an impact.

ONE-SENTENCE TAKEAWAY

Effective communication requires finding the overlap between what you want to say and what your audience cares about, delivering it with human conviction through authentic messengers, and building trust through consistent presence and shared values.

SUMMARY

This episode features communications expert Lulu Cheng Meservey sharing strategies for cutting through today's noisy information environment. The conversation explores how to grab attention, build trust, and communicate effectively in a world saturated with content. Meservey, with her experience at major companies like Activision Blizzard and Substack, provides frameworks for strategic communication that apply to businesses, individuals, and even political figures.

The discussion begins with the challenge of capturing attention in an increasingly crowded media landscape. Meservey explains that the "surface area of opportunity" to grab attention is getting smaller, requiring sharper hooks. She emphasizes three key elements for standing out: human stories that give audiences something to care about, human conviction that creates an almost irresistible gravitational pull, and narrative arcs that connect facts into a compelling chain rather than isolated information points.

A central framework discussed is the Venn Diagram approach to communication. Instead of just saying what you want to say, effective communicators find the overlap between their message and what their audience already cares about. This overlap serves as the "hook" or "gateway drug" that brings the audience in, allowing the communicator to then guide them toward the full message.

The conversation explores why corporations and governments often communicate poorly, attributing it to a cycle of copying ineffective approaches and designating communication to people without skin in the game. Meservey argues that the most effective communicators are the actual leaders of organizations, those with authentic conviction and personal investment in the message.

A significant portion focuses on building trust, which Meservey explains can be engineered through three elements: repeated exposure (becoming familiar rather than a stranger), establishing shared values, and conveying conviction. She emphasizes that trust combined with conviction is a powerful combination for influencing others, as seen in figures like Elon Musk who have convinced people of seemingly impossible visions.

The discussion covers responding to attacks and criticism, with Meservey advocating for immediate response to material reputational damage rather than letting it fester. She introduces the "pressure equation" (P=F/A) as a framework for handling attacks; when under attack, spread the pressure over a wider surface area by framing it as an attack on a larger group or shared values.

The conversation contrasts different communication approaches through case studies like Coinbase and CrowdStrike's crisis responses, highlighting how direct, authentic communication from leaders builds trust while committee-written statements often fail. Meservey also analyzes political communicators like Donald Trump and Karine Jean-Pierre, identifying what makes them effective.

Throughout the episode, Meservey provides practical advice for everyone from CEOs to office workers, emphasizing that everyone is "selling" a product (themselves) in various contexts. She shares frameworks for strategic communication, building deterrence against attacks, and creating a personal brand that aligns with one's goals.

INSIGHTS

FRAMEWORKS & MODELS

The Venn Diagram Approach

Finding the overlap between what you want to say and what your audience cares about. This overlap serves as the entry point for communication, allowing you to meet your audience where they are before guiding them toward your full message. The most effective communication happens in this intersection, not in either circle alone.

The Hook-Story-Medium Framework

Prioritizing creating an interesting hook and compelling story over distribution channels. Most people focus on where to communicate (which podcast, which platform) rather than making their message so interesting that people share it voluntarily. The order of importance should be: 1) the hook, 2) how you tell your story, and 3) where you tell it.

The Pressure Equation (P=F/A)

A physics-based framework for handling attacks: Pressure equals Force divided by Surface Area. When under attack, you can't change the force coming at you, but you can spread it over a wider surface area by framing it as an attack on a larger group or shared values. When on offense, concentrate pressure by narrowing your focus to a specific target.

The Message-Medium-Messenger Framework

Effective communication requires alignment of three elements: 1) the right message (found in the Venn Diagram overlap), 2) the right medium (where your audience actually pays attention), and 3) the right messenger (ideally the actual leader with authentic conviction, not intermediaries).

The Deterrence Model

Establishing yourself as a "hard target" to prevent future attacks. This involves responding consistently to challenges and demonstrating that crossing you will result in consequences. Examples include Palmer Luckey and Sam Altman, who have developed reputations for defending themselves and their companies, creating a deterrent effect.

The Halo Effect

How positive impressions in one area influence perceptions in others. When people lack complete information, they use mental shortcuts and transfer positive associations from one domain to another. This explains why expertise in one area often leads to perceived credibility in unrelated areas.

The "Tit for Two Tats" Strategy

A game theory approach optimal for repeated interactions: allow one transgression but respond firmly to the second. This provides an optimal balance between cooperation and deterrence, giving others the benefit of the doubt while establishing clear boundaries.

QUOTES

"The surface area of the opportunity we have to latch on is getting more and more fine which means that the hook that we need to use has to get more and more sharp." - Lulu Cheng Meservey

This quote encapsulates the central challenge of modern communication—capturing attention in an increasingly crowded environment. It emphasizes that as information becomes more abundant, the entry points for engagement become smaller, requiring more precisely crafted hooks.

"If someone is fighting you with stories, you have to fight with stories. Under the statistics are more powerful stories." - Lulu Cheng Meservey

Meservey highlights the power of narrative over data in influencing people. This insight reveals that facts alone rarely change minds—they must be embedded in compelling stories that resonate emotionally with the audience.

"If you're trying to relieve pressure, you don't get to change how much force is coming at you, but you can change the surface area." - Lulu Cheng Meservey

This quote introduces the pressure equation framework for handling attacks. It reveals a strategic approach to crisis communication—rather than trying to reduce the force against you, spread it over a wider surface area to decrease its impact.

"If you're building a cult, you would never be like, 'Let's not let have the cult leader speak. He he might go off the reservation and he's kind of quirky and eccentric, a little bit weird. Let's just have somebody who's like really polished and professional and normal speak on his behalf in a way that will never offend anybody.'" - Lulu Cheng Meservey

This quote emphasizes the importance of authentic leadership communication. It reveals that polished, sanitized communication through intermediaries lacks the power and conviction that comes directly from leaders with genuine belief in their message.

"Success for me is to open source a lot of what we're talking about here. Specifically, the idea that you can control your destiny. You can create alternate realities. You can bend reality." - Lulu Cheng Meservey

This final quote captures the transformative potential of effective communication. It reveals that strategic communication is about shaping perception and creating new possibilities through how we frame reality.

HABITS

Find the Venn Diagram Overlap

Before communicating, identify both what you want to say and what your audience cares about. Focus on the intersection where these circles overlap. This becomes your entry point for engagement and the foundation for effective communication.

Use Human Conviction

Speak with authentic conviction rather than through intermediaries or polished corporate language. Human conviction creates a gravitational pull that facts alone cannot achieve, making your message more compelling and memorable.

Respond Immediately to Attacks

Address material reputational damage right away rather than letting it fester. Like setting a broken nose immediately, prompt response prevents long-term damage and makes future recovery easier.

Be Strategic About Your Personal Image

Recognize that people only remember a few key aspects about you. Be intentional about projecting the aspects of yourself that align with your goals, whether in professional, personal, or public contexts.

Use Normal Words

Communicate clearly using language your audience understands. Avoid unnecessary jargon or complexity. Simplicity and clarity make your message more accessible and powerful.

Establish Deterrence

Make yourself a "hard target" by responding consistently to challenges. This doesn't mean being aggressive, but rather demonstrating that crossing certain boundaries will result in consequences, creating a deterrent effect against future attacks.

Practice Sparring

Engage with people who disagree with you to sharpen your thinking. This builds intellectual resilience and prepares you to handle criticism effectively, preventing you from freezing when confronted with skepticism.

Apply the "Tit for Two Tats" Principle

Allow one mistake or transgression but respond firmly to repeated issues. This approach provides an optimal balance between cooperation and deterrence in relationships.

Focus on Direction, Not Just Magnitude

Ensure your communication has a clear purpose and direction, not just volume. Every communication should move you closer to your goal rather than just adding to the noise.

Build Trust Through Consistency

Engineer trust through three elements: repeated exposure (becoming familiar rather than a stranger), establishing shared values, and conveying authentic conviction over time.

REFERENCES

Winston Churchill's Quote on Truth and Lies

"The lie makes its way around the world before the truth can get its pants on." This apocryphal quote illustrates how first narratives often have disproportionate influence, highlighting the importance of getting your story out first.

The Eminem Rap Battle in 8 Mile

Used as an example of effective "pre-buttal" addressing potential criticisms before they're raised by others. This technique disarms critics by acknowledging and reframing potential weaknesses before they can be used against you.

The Three Body Problem Trilogy

Liu Cixin's science fiction series introduces the concept of "wallfacers" people tasked with creating secret plans to defend against an alien threat. This serves as a metaphor for strategic communication and deterrence in the face of seemingly overwhelming opposition.

Goodwin's Law

The principle that "once the measure becomes the goal, it ceases to be a good measure." This explains how communication teams often focus on quantity of output (number of press releases, podcast appearances) rather than effectiveness, leading to meaningless activity.

The Affect Heuristic

A psychological principle where people rely on emotions when making decisions. People tend to believe those they like are more competent and trustworthy, making emotional connection an important element of effective communication.

The Cheerleader Effect

The phenomenon where people appear more attractive in a group than individually. This applies to companies and founders as well—association with other respected individuals or organizations can enhance perception through proximity.

Game Theory and "Tit for Two Tats"

Developed by Robert Axelrod, this strategy suggests that in repeated interactions, the optimal approach is to cooperate initially, allow one defection, but respond firmly to a second. This balances cooperation with self-protection more effectively than strict "tit for tat" approaches.

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